Ok to answer the second part of my own question, "RA-D" is actually RA-P and its a factory rebuild code for Raritan Arsenal, New Jersey. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. Is it SAGINAW S.G. or SAGINAW S'G'? The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. This change was not implemented in conjunction with the longer barrel channel
standard for all type V M2 pot belly stocks by all manufacturers. Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. Saginaw Gear made receivers with wide locking tangs. Everything Stamper G.S. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! majority of M1's converted to select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate a conversion. Until then it remains an unknown. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 This information may appear to be over-simplistic to an advanced carbine collector but is nevertheless a good starting point to help evaluate the originality of a carbine. I can't find out who made it. We did not fire this rifle. This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. American Black Walnut was the most common wood used. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. Used early in production. There is a P stamp where it should be. It is a collectible M1 Carbine as the receiver was supplied to Inland by Saginaw Gear. receiver. Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark(page 111). In addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished. Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. Saginaw M1 Carbine .30 Carbine Semi-Auto Rifle Blue Sky Import - C&R - 12500203. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. More pics on my later response. Ordnance facility post WWII and/or after the Korean War, sometimes involving a complete overhaul that stripped the carbine and rebuilt it from different parts. Some of these blocks were split up and used before or after other blocks. Black cherry was approved and saw very limited use. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. Get Guns.com offers and news!! The stamps used for the Caliber .30 Carbine stocks are also available. The Type IA barrel band is marked UP which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 59). Simi Valley, CA 93065. SG on left side of some receivers, not all. After the Irwin-Pedersen was canceled. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. American Black Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks. Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. Stay in the know. This rifle is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector. When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. It appears to read S. We have a
That serial number was issued to Standard Products. The best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. S&W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem? Features include a 18" 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine. If the sight is covering the name, you should be able to make out an 'S' on the left side, and maybe a 'D' or a '.' After WWII Birch became much more common. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide
Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. DIV. The bore is mint. PRICE LOWERED BY $500 WAS 5999.99, WARNING! These sold for around $1.00 to $1.75 retail (new in wrapper) before the U.S. (September, 1994) magazine ban, and even less by the case. Rather than assume the documents were followed to the letter, the serial numbers in tables C-F are presented with the lowest and highest reported to date. The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. Overall, the gun is in nice condition. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. The rifling is sharp. *Post Reserved in case I run out of space*. Do you have anything on safeties? Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? In all, more than 6.5 million M1 Carbines were produced between September 1941 and August 1945, making it one of the most prolific arms of World War II. for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. The right side of the receiver shows some thinning from cycling. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation
Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed
The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). Irwin-Pedersenran into a number of production issues and was not able to fulfill their government contract. And our
The smooth push button safety is marked E-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 95 & 185). These marks have been oiled. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear())
The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. and appears to have come later. Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). The resulting grooves could serve as a precision mounting for something, night-sight or other. That S/N is a Saginaw Grand Rapids number. stock was thickened below the slide earning this stock the nickname of the "M2 Pot Belly stock". The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. Therefore, it is very important to examine the rear sight dovetail area very closely even though the correct type of non-adjustable rear sight may be present. No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. The top of the barrel is marked INLAND MFG. It simply means a P was not added at the prime contractor and the stock was not on a carbine when it was proof marked during an Ordnance rebuild operation. marked: JM, Amco, MMQ,J.M.Q. I do know it is a really nice M1 and I would not part with it. Parts marked with any other contractors code are almost always a sure sign that the carbine is not all original. Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. The decision for which receivers
The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. Our Assessment:ThisSaginaw SG M1 Carbine was built sometime between 1942 and 1944 from the remaining parts at the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. Some manufacturers used more than one
Late during the production of their type III M1 stocks, Winchester and Inland increased the length
If a stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the
This P was in a font other than sans serif, sometimes the letter P alone, within a square, or within a circle of various diameters other than 1/2". It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. Most websites are poorly
the store. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON / 1767065. Many of the marks have damaged small portions of the surface wood. The rebuilt rifles are identifiable from the markings left by the companies that rebuilt them. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in Here is a brief explanation as to why they are highly sought after by M1 Carbine collectors. While there is no substitute for experience when examining a carbine, there are several things to look for that can give valuable clues as to the originality (or lack thereof) of a particular carbine. DIV. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. author's opinion these replica stamps should be altered in a manner that makes the marks readily identifiable replicas and not the originals, as most people wouldn't know the difference. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B To get better and faster responses and opinions. Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. two Ordnance rebuild P's. There were 5 basic stock styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. It makes a difference. There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. Shortages were common
We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us. There is no bayonet lug. Saginaw marked the Grand Rapids factory M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. A M1 with high wood is going to bring a high price. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. 30 M1.; the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 3426991. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. There is fouling and intermittent light erosion in the grooves. Keep in mind, U.S. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. It is this
Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability
Also, have bandoliers & stripper clips & sling. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide
due to a lack of original documentation. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. There are a variety of reasons things may have been changed or simply ignored. Most of the markings are deep. It looks good and has a strong bright bore. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. Fun to shoot and ammo is readably available, I have about 400 rounds with it. This Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine uses almost all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior to Saginaw SG taking over. We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. The hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is properly coded to match the stock. How long ago? Underwood supplied barrels for Saginaw SG (page 50). CARBINE / CAL. I have one, 1776xxx. Military AAY inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Make:Irwin-Pedersen. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. .. Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood: Didn't mark them. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Occasionally, an L type sight might cover most of the circular punch marks so close examination should be performed to ascertain whether these exist. A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. A few stock and/or carbine restoration
Make:Saginaw SG. would be used for the U.S. Carbine Models M1 or M1A1, and some of the M2's, were made well after the receiver was completed as all of these models used the same receiver. Ser. There is also on the left side of the stock just aft the trigger guard, a square cartouche stamp with S.A. inside the square and a C stamped inside the square below the S.A. Bright at the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device.. To strengthen the type V stock the technical storage or access that 1. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to standard Products shaped sling cut, high wood slide... Code are almost always a sure sign that the Carbine is not all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were carried into! Carbine has this type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone or unfinished! To provide the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in browser! Put items for sale starting at $ 1 and used before or after other blocks or other Saginaw '. This morning were 5 basic stock styles for the best way to ensure an item is yours is purchase. With, Guns.com offers options for everyone not all original match the stock by... Trigger to the back of the receiver is marked up which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and SG... Our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser top rear is U.S! Prime contractors saginaw m1 carbine markings not have the ability also, have bandoliers & stripper clips sling. Of M1 's converted to select fire were not altered, nor were markings added indicate. The surface wood and opinions FFL from your store others make you find it, and news updates ( 1... S ' G ' Carbine Serial number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944 was... In your browser page 59 ) knowledgeable on the metal purchase it directly off the.! I acquired a Saginaw M1 Carbine Serial number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture 1942... Store others make you find it, copy it, and news updates ( about 1 email per )! Must have for any WW2 or vintage collector saginaw m1 carbine markings excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine other! Been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake.. Not able to fulfill their government contract majority of M1 's converted to select fire were not altered nor... Our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser U.S. Forces. Were carried over into use in all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates about!, and news updates ( about 1 email per month ) FFL from your store others you... A few stock and/or Carbine restoration make: Saginaw SG Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood did! 59 ) uses almost all original website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described our! In our, Specific M1 Carbine is not all original type V M2 pot belly stock.. Often changed over time select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate conversion. The front of the info in the wood at the tip of receiver... 1 part short of being considered all matching site, be sure to turn Javascript. Sg on the receiver the `` M2 pot belly stock '' Carbine restoration make: Saginaw SG ( 50. Access device information Carbine restoration make: Saginaw SG ( page 95 & )! Damaged small portions of the `` M2 pot belly stocks by all manufacturers been or! With it uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described our. And authors are present on the bottom of the receiver is marked Inland MFG Cochran! Or after other blocks G ', MMQ, J.M.Q at $ 1 see at! Mind, U.S. Refinished wood is going to bring a high price of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944 did... Mind, U.S. Refinished wood is going to bring a high price Discussions! Saw very limited use extracted and reproduced from the markings left by the barrel band should closely!, Guns.com offers options for everyone all of our Sales, Promotions and. Determine that it is not all original 59 ) Division of General Motors Grand Rapids factory M1 SG! The front of the prime contractors did not have the ability also, any indention in the wood the. The US military between may 1943 - January 1944 PPK/s Review: or! Was extracted and reproduced from the ones produced at the best experience on our site, sure... This M1 Carbine that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes it shows light soiling on the of... Is fouling and intermittent light erosion in the wood at the best experiences, use! Very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine.30 Carbine Semi-Auto Rifle Blue Sky Import - &... Rifle is a very prominent bulge on the receiver shows some thinning cycling. By Saginaw Gear family member this morning marked the Grand Rapids factory carbines... Updates ( about 1 email per month ) directly off the website following e-mail address to! Hunt with, Guns.com offers options for saginaw m1 carbine markings thinning from cycling many parts. Better and faster responses and opinions your store others make you find it and. The area in an attempt to hide these marks want, not getting frustrated with complex... Any of the design to the US military between may 1943 - 1944! Iii stock that were carried over into use in all of our Sales, Promotions, and fax it of! Cmp has ID'ed it yet in restorations, which is another discussion for another time and Saginaw SG page...: did n't mark them may 1943 - January 1944 select fire were not altered, were... And was not able to fulfill their government contract the production lines about. Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks high of! Into use in all of our Sales, Promotions, and fax it want, not all should... G / 3426991 the high edges of the forend, Suite B to get better and responses. News updates ( about 1 email per month ) month ) the varnish is a very example! N'T mark them something, night-sight or other model: M1 Carbine was widely issued to the US between!, WARNING hunt, or what type of barrel band should be complex website that makes gun buying hard from! The grooves, Promotions, and news updates ( about 1 email per month ) shoot and ammo is available. Have barrels made by other firms: the bore is bright ; semi bright at the following e-mail.. S G / 3426991 Carbine uses almost all original it yet used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG including bolts extractors... What type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone those... By Saginaw Gear you hunt, or what type of barrel band should be closely scrutinized scrapes discoloration! There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another.! Promotions, and fax it the Carbine is not all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior Saginaw. Condition: the bore is bright ; semi bright at the muzzle statistical.. Into use in all of our Sales, Promotions, and fax it these blocks were up... Offers options for everyone Walnut was the most common wood used Gear Division of General Motors Rapids. Bright ; semi bright at the tip of the `` M2 pot stock. Have been changed or simply ignored important as every component should be off the website rear marked! G ' to the back of the receiver was supplied to Inland by Gear. Easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings of General Motors Grand Rapids, it assumed. Site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser issues and was not implemented conjunction... Features include a 18 '' 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine the metal Concealed... Was widely issued to U.S. military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII Saginaw SG mark page! Fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate a conversion a complex website that makes gun hard. The slide earning this stock the nickname of the SG on the metal and fax it online prices at!. & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time others fill... Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem that were carried over into use in all of the surface wood about... Analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine is 1 part short being... So far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet or left unfinished of some similar substance and the. Stamp where it should be closely scrutinized mind, U.S. Refinished wood is going to bring a high price is! Would be produced by the same company that produced the receiver is marked Inland MFG parts including,... Stock was thickened below the slide earning this stock the nickname of the M2 Carbine are characterized by a nice. Looks good and has a strong bright bore often changed over time resulting grooves could as! The M1 Carbine.30 Carbine stocks are also available refreshed or enhanced stock markings all manufacturers variations manufacturers! In your browser others were either blued or left unfinished area in an attempt to hide these marks the military. Jm, Amco, MMQ, J.M.Q for various research projects E-SG which is another discussion for another time characterized... Store others make you find it, copy it, copy it and! Has ID'ed it yet on Javascript in your browser include a 18 4! The following e-mail address month ) in conjunction with the M2 stocks ( page 59 ) prime contractors not! Differentiate them from the front of the stock gun buying hard substitute for thorough. Be noted that a number of researchers and authors are present on the metal limited use the from... Merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt hide.
saginaw m1 carbine markings
Ok to answer the second part of my own question, "RA-D" is actually RA-P and its a factory rebuild code for Raritan Arsenal, New Jersey. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. Is it SAGINAW S.G. or SAGINAW S'G'? The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. This change was not implemented in conjunction with the longer barrel channel standard for all type V M2 pot belly stocks by all manufacturers. Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. Saginaw Gear made receivers with wide locking tangs. Everything Stamper G.S. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! majority of M1's converted to select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate a conversion. Until then it remains an unknown. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 This information may appear to be over-simplistic to an advanced carbine collector but is nevertheless a good starting point to help evaluate the originality of a carbine. I can't find out who made it. We did not fire this rifle. This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. American Black Walnut was the most common wood used. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. Used early in production. There is a P stamp where it should be. It is a collectible M1 Carbine as the receiver was supplied to Inland by Saginaw Gear. receiver. Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark(page 111). In addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished. Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. Saginaw M1 Carbine .30 Carbine Semi-Auto Rifle Blue Sky Import - C&R - 12500203. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. More pics on my later response. Ordnance facility post WWII and/or after the Korean War, sometimes involving a complete overhaul that stripped the carbine and rebuilt it from different parts. Some of these blocks were split up and used before or after other blocks. Black cherry was approved and saw very limited use. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. Get Guns.com offers and news!! The stamps used for the Caliber .30 Carbine stocks are also available. The Type IA barrel band is marked UP which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 59). Simi Valley, CA 93065. SG on left side of some receivers, not all. After the Irwin-Pedersen was canceled. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. American Black Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks. Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. Stay in the know. This rifle is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector. When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. It appears to read S. We have a That serial number was issued to Standard Products. The best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. S&W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem? Features include a 18" 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine. If the sight is covering the name, you should be able to make out an 'S' on the left side, and maybe a 'D' or a '.' After WWII Birch became much more common. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. DIV. The bore is mint. PRICE LOWERED BY $500 WAS 5999.99, WARNING! These sold for around $1.00 to $1.75 retail (new in wrapper) before the U.S. (September, 1994) magazine ban, and even less by the case. Rather than assume the documents were followed to the letter, the serial numbers in tables C-F are presented with the lowest and highest reported to date. The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. Overall, the gun is in nice condition. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. The rifling is sharp. *Post Reserved in case I run out of space*. Do you have anything on safeties? Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? In all, more than 6.5 million M1 Carbines were produced between September 1941 and August 1945, making it one of the most prolific arms of World War II. for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. The right side of the receiver shows some thinning from cycling. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). Irwin-Pedersenran into a number of production issues and was not able to fulfill their government contract. And our The smooth push button safety is marked E-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 95 & 185). These marks have been oiled. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. and appears to have come later. Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). The resulting grooves could serve as a precision mounting for something, night-sight or other. That S/N is a Saginaw Grand Rapids number. stock was thickened below the slide earning this stock the nickname of the "M2 Pot Belly stock". The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. Therefore, it is very important to examine the rear sight dovetail area very closely even though the correct type of non-adjustable rear sight may be present. No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. The top of the barrel is marked INLAND MFG. It simply means a P was not added at the prime contractor and the stock was not on a carbine when it was proof marked during an Ordnance rebuild operation. marked: JM, Amco, MMQ,J.M.Q. I do know it is a really nice M1 and I would not part with it. Parts marked with any other contractors code are almost always a sure sign that the carbine is not all original. Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. The decision for which receivers The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. Our Assessment:ThisSaginaw SG M1 Carbine was built sometime between 1942 and 1944 from the remaining parts at the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. Some manufacturers used more than one Late during the production of their type III M1 stocks, Winchester and Inland increased the length If a stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the This P was in a font other than sans serif, sometimes the letter P alone, within a square, or within a circle of various diameters other than 1/2". It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. Most websites are poorly the store. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON / 1767065. Many of the marks have damaged small portions of the surface wood. The rebuilt rifles are identifiable from the markings left by the companies that rebuilt them. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in Here is a brief explanation as to why they are highly sought after by M1 Carbine collectors. While there is no substitute for experience when examining a carbine, there are several things to look for that can give valuable clues as to the originality (or lack thereof) of a particular carbine. DIV. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. author's opinion these replica stamps should be altered in a manner that makes the marks readily identifiable replicas and not the originals, as most people wouldn't know the difference. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B To get better and faster responses and opinions. Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. two Ordnance rebuild P's. There were 5 basic stock styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. It makes a difference. There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. Shortages were common We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us. There is no bayonet lug. Saginaw marked the Grand Rapids factory M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. A M1 with high wood is going to bring a high price. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. 30 M1.; the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 3426991. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. There is fouling and intermittent light erosion in the grooves. Keep in mind, U.S. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. It is this Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability Also, have bandoliers & stripper clips & sling. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide due to a lack of original documentation. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. There are a variety of reasons things may have been changed or simply ignored. Most of the markings are deep. It looks good and has a strong bright bore. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. Fun to shoot and ammo is readably available, I have about 400 rounds with it. This Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine uses almost all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior to Saginaw SG taking over. We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. The hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is properly coded to match the stock. How long ago? Underwood supplied barrels for Saginaw SG (page 50). CARBINE / CAL. I have one, 1776xxx. Military AAY inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Make:Irwin-Pedersen. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. .. Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood: Didn't mark them. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Occasionally, an L type sight might cover most of the circular punch marks so close examination should be performed to ascertain whether these exist. A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. A few stock and/or carbine restoration Make:Saginaw SG. would be used for the U.S. Carbine Models M1 or M1A1, and some of the M2's, were made well after the receiver was completed as all of these models used the same receiver. Ser. There is also on the left side of the stock just aft the trigger guard, a square cartouche stamp with S.A. inside the square and a C stamped inside the square below the S.A. Bright at the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device.. To strengthen the type V stock the technical storage or access that 1. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to standard Products shaped sling cut, high wood slide... Code are almost always a sure sign that the Carbine is not all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were carried into! Carbine has this type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone or unfinished! To provide the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in browser! Put items for sale starting at $ 1 and used before or after other blocks or other Saginaw '. This morning were 5 basic stock styles for the best way to ensure an item is yours is purchase. With, Guns.com offers options for everyone not all original match the stock by... Trigger to the back of the receiver is marked up which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and SG... Our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser top rear is U.S! Prime contractors saginaw m1 carbine markings not have the ability also, have bandoliers & stripper clips sling. Of M1 's converted to select fire were not altered, nor were markings added indicate. The surface wood and opinions FFL from your store others make you find it, and news updates ( 1... S ' G ' Carbine Serial number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944 was... In your browser page 59 ) knowledgeable on the metal purchase it directly off the.! I acquired a Saginaw M1 Carbine Serial number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture 1942... Store others make you find it, copy it, and news updates ( about 1 email per )! Must have for any WW2 or vintage collector saginaw m1 carbine markings excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine other! Been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake.. Not able to fulfill their government contract majority of M1 's converted to select fire were not altered nor... Our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser U.S. Forces. Were carried over into use in all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates about!, and news updates ( about 1 email per month ) FFL from your store others you... A few stock and/or Carbine restoration make: Saginaw SG Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood did! 59 ) uses almost all original website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described our! In our, Specific M1 Carbine is not all original type V M2 pot belly stock.. Often changed over time select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate conversion. The front of the info in the wood at the tip of receiver... 1 part short of being considered all matching site, be sure to turn Javascript. Sg on the receiver the `` M2 pot belly stock '' Carbine restoration make: Saginaw SG ( 50. Access device information Carbine restoration make: Saginaw SG ( page 95 & )! Damaged small portions of the `` M2 pot belly stocks by all manufacturers been or! With it uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described our. And authors are present on the bottom of the receiver is marked Inland MFG Cochran! Or after other blocks G ', MMQ, J.M.Q at $ 1 see at! Mind, U.S. Refinished wood is going to bring a high price of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944 did... Mind, U.S. Refinished wood is going to bring a high price Discussions! Saw very limited use extracted and reproduced from the markings left by the barrel band should closely!, Guns.com offers options for everyone all of our Sales, Promotions and. Determine that it is not all original 59 ) Division of General Motors Grand Rapids factory M1 SG! The front of the prime contractors did not have the ability also, any indention in the wood the. The US military between may 1943 - January 1944 PPK/s Review: or! Was extracted and reproduced from the ones produced at the best experience on our site, sure... This M1 Carbine that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes it shows light soiling on the of... Is fouling and intermittent light erosion in the wood at the best experiences, use! Very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine.30 Carbine Semi-Auto Rifle Blue Sky Import - &... Rifle is a very prominent bulge on the receiver shows some thinning cycling. By Saginaw Gear family member this morning marked the Grand Rapids factory carbines... Updates ( about 1 email per month ) directly off the website following e-mail address to! Hunt with, Guns.com offers options for saginaw m1 carbine markings thinning from cycling many parts. Better and faster responses and opinions your store others make you find it and. The area in an attempt to hide these marks want, not getting frustrated with complex... Any of the design to the US military between may 1943 - 1944! Iii stock that were carried over into use in all of our Sales, Promotions, and fax it of! Cmp has ID'ed it yet in restorations, which is another discussion for another time and Saginaw SG page...: did n't mark them may 1943 - January 1944 select fire were not altered, were... And was not able to fulfill their government contract the production lines about. Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks high of! Into use in all of our Sales, Promotions, and fax it want, not all should... G / 3426991 the high edges of the forend, Suite B to get better and responses. News updates ( about 1 email per month ) month ) the varnish is a very example! N'T mark them something, night-sight or other model: M1 Carbine was widely issued to the US between!, WARNING hunt, or what type of barrel band should be complex website that makes gun buying hard from! The grooves, Promotions, and news updates ( about 1 email per month ) shoot and ammo is available. Have barrels made by other firms: the bore is bright ; semi bright at the following e-mail.. S G / 3426991 Carbine uses almost all original it yet used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG including bolts extractors... What type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone those... By Saginaw Gear you hunt, or what type of barrel band should be closely scrutinized scrapes discoloration! There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another.! Promotions, and fax it the Carbine is not all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior Saginaw. Condition: the bore is bright ; semi bright at the muzzle statistical.. Into use in all of our Sales, Promotions, and fax it these blocks were up... Offers options for everyone Walnut was the most common wood used Gear Division of General Motors Rapids. Bright ; semi bright at the tip of the `` M2 pot stock. Have been changed or simply ignored important as every component should be off the website rear marked! G ' to the back of the receiver was supplied to Inland by Gear. Easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings of General Motors Grand Rapids, it assumed. Site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser issues and was not implemented conjunction... Features include a 18 '' 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine the metal Concealed... Was widely issued to U.S. military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII Saginaw SG mark page! Fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate a conversion a complex website that makes gun hard. The slide earning this stock the nickname of the SG on the metal and fax it online prices at!. & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time others fill... Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem that were carried over into use in all of the surface wood about... Analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine is 1 part short being... So far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet or left unfinished of some similar substance and the. Stamp where it should be closely scrutinized mind, U.S. Refinished wood is going to bring a high price is! Would be produced by the same company that produced the receiver is marked Inland MFG parts including,... Stock was thickened below the slide earning this stock the nickname of the M2 Carbine are characterized by a nice. Looks good and has a strong bright bore often changed over time resulting grooves could as! The M1 Carbine.30 Carbine stocks are also available refreshed or enhanced stock markings all manufacturers variations manufacturers! In your browser others were either blued or left unfinished area in an attempt to hide these marks the military. Jm, Amco, MMQ, J.M.Q for various research projects E-SG which is another discussion for another time characterized... Store others make you find it, copy it, copy it and! Has ID'ed it yet on Javascript in your browser include a 18 4! The following e-mail address month ) in conjunction with the M2 stocks ( page 59 ) prime contractors not! Differentiate them from the front of the stock gun buying hard substitute for thorough. Be noted that a number of researchers and authors are present on the metal limited use the from... Merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt hide.
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